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Sophy03
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(1/29/04 12:48 pm)
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4WD
System & Snow Behavior
Before purchasing my 3.5 4WD in April '04, I completely
flogged the Santa Fe. I was confident with just about
everything; the 3.5 vs the 2.7, 4 speed auto vs 5 speed
auto, etc. The only question was the 4WD
system.
Technically the Interactive Torque
Management II system (the ITM-1 was introduced on the
Acura MDX) by Borg Warner is classified as an on-demand
type of system.
Normally in an on-demand system
there is a primary axle--either front or rear--and a
secondary axle which is powered if and only if the
primary loses traction (ie, spins).
So during the
test drive I truly flogged the Santa Fe, trying to find
the 4WD system weaknesses. After all, any old Escape or
CRV would do if I wanted an only-if-the-front-tires-slip
type of 4WD system.
In reality, Borg Warner seems
to have done an excellent job of designing the ITM-2
sytem. For instance, torque is sent rearward with
greater than 4/3 throttle during acceleration. It
factors in throttle, steering angle, wheel speeds and
even what gear the trans is in.
Unfortunately for
me when I bought my 3.5, there was no snow in Colorado!
So I had to wait until the last few months to discover
its snow behavior.
Not only during standing start
acceleration, but rolling starts and braking, steady
state and dynamic cornering. How to initiate and more
importantly how to correct and control four wheel
slides.
I must say, I am more and more impressed
every time I drive her in the snow.
Best
regards,
SRW
2003 3.5 4WD
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MetalMessiah78
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(1/29/04 1:06
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Yup, that seems to be the common consensus with
everyone that has a 4WD Santy.
Although it's not
the most practical vehicle to go off-roading in, it's
practical where it counts. Hyundai have really out done
themselves with the Santa Fe. Not even vehicles that
cost hundreds or thousands more are made or engineered
as good as our Santy's.
Founder of the
Santa Fe Silver Wings.  "Tonight,
on Silver Wings, I am soaring through the mountains of
The Moon, on Silver Wings, flying where no Angles fly."
- Bruce Dickinson
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retired
in bama 
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
My '02 LX 2.7 4WD has the original mechanical viscous
coupling 4WD where front/rear is split 60/40 all the
time or so they say. Takes a bit of extra power and
mpg's to run it that way but I'm happy with its
performance in mud bogs and the one time I was in the
snow 9" in Arkansas this time last year.
 RI'B
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fdigiorgio
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(1/29/04 2:59 pm)
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I drove up to my GF's last night near State College PA
and they had twice as much snow [8"-10"] as we did in
Harrisburg. I had lots-o-fun last night in a few empty
parking lots that haven't been cleared yet ;^) The Santy
[3.5 GLS] performed flawlessly - or near as much as I
can tell as I've never owned a 4WD/AWD ever. I'm one
satisified Santa Fe owner - that's for sure...
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Sophy03
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(1/29/04 3:07 pm)
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
You're right. The 2.7 4WD is mechanical and I love it.
Kind of wish my 3.5 had it (but with a different torque
split).
The mechanical system is an innovative
uses of existing technologym and is a true permanent 4WD
drive system, just like the Audi Quattro is, but a
different execution.
It combines the center
differential and front differential into a single unit,
called appropriately enought, the Double DIfferential
Unit. Handling the limited slip function between front
and rear axles is a well proven viscous
coupling.
The advertised torque split of the
mechanical system is 60:40, front biased. Being a full
time system, this can momentarily vary as when
cornering, and provides predictable handling and good
stability.
When I analysed the Double
Differential Unit the toque flow paths within are a
little convoluted, but it is a novel, compact solution
to providing permanent 4WD. Probably why it was awarded
patent number 6,001,043.
Best regards,
SRW
2003 3.5 4WD
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Sophy03
Registered User
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(1/29/04 3:08 pm)
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
If you have the 3.5 4WD make sure you turn off the TCS
system. Much more control.
Best regards,
SRW
2003 3.5 4WD
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 twospirits
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(1/29/04 9:34
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ezSupporter
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Very good topic.
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MetalMessiah78
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(1/30/04 12:04
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I agree 2˛.
How would you have more control by
turning your TCS off?
Founder of the
Santa Fe Silver Wings. "Tonight,
on Silver Wings, I am soaring through the mountains of
The Moon, on Silver Wings, flying where no Angles fly."
- Bruce Dickinson
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Sophy03
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(1/30/04 12:30
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
The TCS system provides 'stability' by controlling the
ECM and applying hydraulic pressure to the
brakes.
My notion of control does not include the
computer kicking in during the middle of a corner. It
adds another variable exactly when I DON'T want
it.
Now, if I am driving on sheet ice, I am happy
to push the TCB button. That's where I would want the
computer CONTROL --during startup.
Best regards,
SRW
2003 3.5 4WD
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twospirits
Moderator
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4583
(1/30/04 10:37
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ezSupporter
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I believe only the 2004 and some 2003s have the TCS
on/off button.
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MetalMessiah78
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(1/31/04 12:52
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I have a 2003.5, and mine has the on/off button.
Founder of the
Santa Fe Silver Wings. "Tonight,
on Silver Wings, I am soaring through the mountains of
The Moon, on Silver Wings, flying where no Angles fly."
- Bruce Dickinson
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twospirits
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(1/31/04 1:06
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ezSupporter
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Do you have a pic of the location, I'm curious as to
know where it would have been had I had one.
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hbcroushore
Registered User
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165
(1/31/04 1:50
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Hi 2S. The switch is to the right of the rheostat that
dims the dash lights. I bought the switch ( under $2.00)
and am in the process of figuring out how to wire it up.
I checked the schematic diagram and am trying to locate
the cable assy. The big question is,, Is the module in
the new Santy with the switch the same as in the Santy
without. If the module is the same, the job will be
easy. --- Harry
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twospirits
Moderator
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4608
(1/31/04 2:22
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ezSupporter
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Cool,
if you get it working, post the write
up.
Regardless keep us posted. 
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MetalMessiah78
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(1/31/04 4:29
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Hey Twospirits, here's the picture that you wanted.
Sorry for the poor picture quality though. My digital
camera sucks.
Founder of the
Santa Fe Silver Wings. "Tonight,
on Silver Wings, I am soaring through the mountains of
The Moon, on Silver Wings, flying where no Angles fly."
- Bruce Dickinson
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lizardhowson
Registered User
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(1/31/04 10:20
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Go
in the Snow
My Sany can "Go in the Snow" ! 
It's
not a great SUV unless it's a Santa Fe LX
4WD!
Visit my homepage Lizard's Lair
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twospirits
Moderator
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(1/31/04 11:07
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ezSupporter
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
Thanks Metal, Interesting where the switch is at. That
still leaves Hyundai another switch to place in the
other unused part. Hmmm Wonder what else they can come
up with.
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MetalMessiah78
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1307
(1/31/04 11:23
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I don't know. I'm sure that there must be a model
overseas that has something there. I don't think that it
would have been designed that way if it wasn't meant for
something.
Founder of the
Santa Fe Silver Wings. "Tonight,
on Silver Wings, I am soaring through the mountains of
The Moon, on Silver Wings, flying where no Angles fly."
- Bruce Dickinson
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nickmcalpin
Registered User
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(2/12/04 10:34
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I live in St. Louis. We don't get a lot of snow, we've
had around 3" a couple times this winter, but we get
what seems to be a disproportionate amount of freezing
rain.
Anyway, with our first major
(comparatively, I'm sure in Buffalo, they're laughing at
me
) snowfall (of about 3") I had no problems. Had fun
watching a guy in a Mustang slide all over the place
though 
Before the SF, I had a Toyota Corolla ('96) I
was pretty happy with it, except for the TERRIBLE
traction on wet surfaces. I felt like my life was in
danger if I drove in more than a dusting of snow. If I
had to stop at a stoplight on a hill in the rain, when I
started again, my tires spun virtually every time. So,
when I was looking for a new vehicle, I knew I wanted TC
or 4WD or AWD, something to improve traction. I've been
REALLY happy with the SF so far.
Nick
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NYC35SantaFe
Registered User
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(3/5/04 8:37 am)
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 Re: 4WD System & Snow
Behavior
Sophy03,
Thanks for the explanation of the new
4WD system on the 3.5 as no one could properly explain
the difference to me between the mechanical "AWD" system
on the 2.7 and the "new variable 4WD" on the 3.5. But I
still don't quite understand how it works, despite your
explanation and looking up the Interactive Torque
Management II system on the internet. Are there times
when it's just 2WD? Is it always 4WD but just at
different ratios? Therefore your statement of it being
4/3 rearward on accelration, that means it's a 4:3 ratio
of front wheel power to rear wheel power?
Sorry
for all the questions, but I'm just trying to understand
how it works.
Thanks
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Haiiroinu
Registered User
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(3/5/04 1:44 pm)
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I’ve now had the opportunity to put about 5,000 miles
on snow and ice on my 2004, 3.5 liter Santa Fe with the
“on-demand” system. My vehicle is set up with studded
snow tires, and about half of my driving has been on
winding, mountain roads. I can compare the Santa Fe’s
performance to three other all-season, AWD and 4x4
vehicles in our household.
The Santa Fe does
reasonably well, but I have noticed some “interesting”
characteristics. Under power and at speed (usually no
more than about 45 mph) on slippery up-hills, the system
“hunts” significantly (a slight right-left pulling).
It’s a disconcerting sensation, but doesn’t seem to be
unsafe. I can also feel the AWD system engage rather
abruptly at slow speeds. There doesn’t seem to be much
“clutching” action, with the system seemingly either
completely engaged or completely disengaged. Combined
with the 3.5’s non-linear throttle control, the effect
is a bit obnoxious.
Overall, this seems to be a
good vehicle for people who are not familiar with
driving in low-traction conditions and who intend to
stay on paved roads. It takes a great deal of insistence
to get the Santa Fe sliding around. The anti-lock brakes
are also some of the smoothest I’ve ever felt, which is
a good thing, since they come on quite easily. It’s not
a rugged off-road type vehicle, but it makes a good
foul-weather commuter or snowy road tripper.
My
daily commute to work: snipurl.com/my_commute
Edited by: Haiiroinu
at: 3/29/04 1:04 pm
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retired
in bama
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Re: 4WD System & Snow
Behavior
I just returned from the Northeast corner of NY state
on the Canadian border; lots of snow but there always is
during the winter. I went up into the Adirondack Mtns.
and drove on some backroads searching for the lake
cottage I rented for this coming summer. I drove on some
back roads that only had snowmobile tracks on them. 4WD
2.7 '02 LX was one sweet ride in the snow. I've lived in
big snow country a lot and always had a 4WD of some
sort....CJ-5 Jeeps and pickups for the most part and the
Santy handled as well or better than the others...just
couldn't get way off road 'cause the Santy is too low to
the ground for that. For regular driving on snow-packed
roads the Santy can't be beat!!!
RI'B
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baileybill
Registered User
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(3/7/04 2:20 pm)
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reply
I love the way the 2004 3.5 drives so far
took it on
a trip with just 101 miles on it
live in the
mountains in Colorado,,went west during snow storm thru
Utah and south to Flagstaff AZ,,,,had NO
problems,,,,,went east out of Flag in another storm into
Albuquerque and then north into Denver and then west
into Bailey area,,,,am VERY pleased
would like better
gas milage,,,,any
suggestions
baileybill@earthlink.net
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jliedeka
![]()
Registered User
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(3/14/04 12:52
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 Re: 4WD System & Snow
Behavior
My 2003 3.5AWD handled a Wisconsin winter quite well.
Most of my driving was commuting and weekend errands. I
do think the AWD is a little abrupt at low speeds but I
really don't mind. When I feel the AWD or ABS kicking
in, that alerts me that the road may have less traction
than I thought. I found the Santy to be amazingly
stable.
Jim
Don't panic |
42JMracegirl27
Registered User
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(3/17/04 1:48 pm)
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Re:
4WD System & Snow Behavior
I just got my first dose of Santy snow driving last
night this am! This car rocks in the snow! I must say
though first that our kia sephia handles remarkably well
in the snow with just cheapy all season radials on it.
Driving the santy is a totally different experience. We
had a few greasy snow days which I hated it becuase all
my studs did was slide on the mess. last night however
we got walloped and it was fun I didnt want to pull off
into work I wanted to just go for a drive! The traction
control kicked in at the top of my hill which was pretty
cool normally I just slide through the turn. Then
leaving work we had a good 12-14 inches and the 4 wheel
drive was in use. I thought it handled really well I was
more than comfortable driving in the weather.
Rae#42
#20 #8
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gopack36
Administrator
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(3/17/04 1:59
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Re: 4WD System & Snow
Behavior
Amen!!! I love the way the SF handles the winter!! It
is by far the best vehicle I have ever driven in the
snow.
Glad to see you enjoyed it!!
Gopack36
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